Manners are Societal Expectations and Are Optional
Are you still sitting in your chair? I completely understand if you had to stop and pick yourself up from the floor - I certainly did.
“Manners are societal expectations…they are optional.”
So shocking I had to say it twice and even then, it leaves this echoing residue of sorts. Doesn’t it?
That very statement is an actual comment left in another discussion that’s going on here on Guerilla Parenting.
Honestly, I’m disgusted that people take disregard for good manners when it comes to dealing with or being a part of the public.
I’ve raised my boys similar to what I was raised by my mom and grandmother - and that is if I don’t practice good manners with the please, thank you and here let me get that for you… I might just wake up with a few teeth missing.
I have this real problem with people not behaving respectfully in public. In fact, I’ve made it my own mission of sorts, to take those who lack respect or manners and embarrass them publicly by calling them out for whatever it is they’ve done that’s offended anyone, including me.
I’ve been known to point out that a store manager must be having a really bad day in front of a line of customers when the manager thought she’d be big and belittle the cashier in front of patrons.
I’ve been known to let dumbasses who park in handicap spots without the plate or a limp that they were busted and should move or be reported to the store immediately.
I’ve been known to call out mean kids in front of those they were obviously trying to impress and insist they treat me the exact way they’d bullied others earlier.
I’ve no problem delivering kids to their parents and letting their parents know what a very poor reflection their children’s behavior is on them.
I’ve been known to create a sign for windshields of people who park poorly - taking up two or three spaces that lets the world know they truly are a “Privileged Parker“
I believe manners have fallen by the wayside to everyone who feels the need to play the victim or believes they are entitled just because they live and breathe. Manners have become almost extinct in the name of free speech, women’s lib and a person’s rights.
There was absolutely NOTHING wrong with a time when men held doors for women - when people could actually pull over to help someone with a flat - when a knock at the door wasn’t always something to be inspected before opening - when background checks were unheard of and you could leave your house never having to lock the door.
When manners became optional - humanity and kindness became an endangered species.
Thanks for the post idea Natures Mom
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17 opinions for Manners are Societal Expectations and Are Optional
Kelsey
Jul 7, 2008 at 9:18 pm
All I have to say is Amen!
marye
Jul 7, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Manners are not optional here. They are required. My children admittedly have authoritarian parents. We do not allow cussing, spitting, disrespect or..uh..writing on the walls.
They say yes sir and no ma’am. The go to bed when we say, get up when we say, and are forced to do chores. Without pay, because we don’t believe in allowances here.
We don’t allow fighting, arguing, and have never once dealt with sibling rivalry..
Of our 8 children, the oldest is 26 and the youngest is 5. That makes me rather experienced in raising children. And..my methods are proven, I have well adjusted adult children. Not one of them has a compressed psyche because they have to walk indoors. Not one of them has dealt with any longstanding phobia because they had to answer when they were spoken to, and not one of the boys has issues because he was taught to hold the door open for ladies and wait for them to be seated.
I do deal with disabilities in my family, as well as the occasional bratty moment.
If Helen Keller was not allowed to use her disabilities as an excuse for horrid behavior I seriously doubt that anyone else’s child needs to either.
However, perhaps the lack of manners is a disability in itself. Maybe we need a new category of disability, Socially Challenged.
Then they could have their own area in restaurants and on planes…and irritate each other.
Gosh, Gayla, you should have said you hated football…it wpuld have been easier.
Sue Doe-Nim
Jul 8, 2008 at 12:55 am
Stop.
Just Stop.
It’s clear that neither of the two families you are willing to call out by name would ever make it though a civilized meal in my home. Even if it was a picnic!
There’s a bell curve and media tends to find the people on the fringe of the curve becauase no matter how you try or what you do they don’t fit in. They either can’t or won’t.
And when they sue it’s typically laughable.
Dianne
Jul 8, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I took my 3 year-old to a party store to pick out My Little Pony supplies for her party. She was so happy and excited to be in on the planning. She gave the cashier a few things to scan, and the cashier handed them back to her. My daughter said THANK YOU with a big smile while taking the items back. The woman just looked at her and kept on scanning. She seemed annoyed that my daughter was handing her things, like she wanted to hurry it up and could not bring herself to say You’re Welcome (and there was not a sole in the store other than us). When the woman did not say You’re Welcome, my daugther (3, mind you) said “Whatever” because she recognized the snub!! I was appauled at first, then I said “I’m sure the nice lady meant to say You’re Welcome.” haha! I got the evil stare from the cashier for that one. I just could not even believe that a woman would not say You’re Welcome to a child, the child who, next to Hi and Bye, has been saying Please and Thank You and You’re Welcome from the second she could talk. What is with this world!! Also, isn’t it just automatic? It takes so much more energy to not say You’re Welcome to a Thank You. Anyway, I don’t want my daughter to be fresh to an adult, but I’m glad she has high expectations of people where manners are concerned.
Gayla McCord
Jul 8, 2008 at 6:57 pm
@ Marye - Saying I hate football is the much safer route - I do have to agree there! (for those who might be confused, it’s a little inside joke)
@ Sue Doe-Nim - you have civilized picnics? How DO you do it?
@ Dianne - I think it’s great that your 3-year-old sets the bar so high. Expecations for proper manners should begin early.
CanadianMom
Jul 8, 2008 at 10:32 pm
I receive kudos regularly for my boys’ manners, who are 6 and 2. When I was akid, manners were very important, and hey, they get you further in life. My guys are very polite and respectful towards everyone, not just adults.
A funny story about that. My son, 2, and his cousin, also 2 but a girl, were playing at my sisters’ house. Girl cousin gives boy cousin a kiss, boy says ‘oh thank you for the kiss’, and girl cousin says ‘oh you’re very welcome.’
Guess you had to be there.
Anyway, I will not let my children blend in with the rest of society in the manners department. Can you imagine what life in the future would be like? Scary.
Tiffany
Jul 9, 2008 at 10:27 am
Personally I don’t want my kids to learn manners because society requires it. I want them to learn gratitude from actual gratitude and graciousness from being treated with graciousness, etc. They learn it from seeing it modeled by a parent, so I don’t TRAIN my kids to be mannerly. I just model it for them and of course free will dictates that they can be less than mannerly of they choose. It is a choice. I personally wouldn’t want to live in a world where someone’s interpretaions of manners were forced on everyone…gross.
The way you attack people in public for not meeting your standards sounds less than mannerly to me. Telling others what to say or do or think is NOT good manners. And I find most of the manners forced down our throuts are just that…attempts to tell us what to say and how to say it and what to feel. Manners make OTHER people feel all warm and fuzzy and validated. Sad really.
Oh and the story of the cashier and the 3 year old…the only bad manners I saw was the comment made to the cashier by the mom and allowing the 3 year old to think there is some social injustice involved because the cashier didn’t say thank you. Perspective people.
Tiffany
Jul 9, 2008 at 10:34 am
OMG! How did I gloss over the refernce to punching your child in the mouth if they don’t say please or thank you????! Sick!
Tiffany
Jul 9, 2008 at 10:52 am
CanadianMom
Can you imagine what life in the future would be like if everyone were forced to be mannerly? Yes Scary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giver
Dianne
Jul 9, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Tiffany: I think the cashier SHOULD HAVE said YOU”RE WELCOME to my daughter. period. She made sure not to..she heard my daughter. She’s not only a person who, though not require by society, should return graciousness, but she is a paid employee, supposedly providing CUSTOMER SERVICES. She should have, as much as she hated that my daughter and I had the nerve to come to the store and be happy, forced herself to say You’re Welcome. She’s an employee, and she was trying to be rude. Unacceptable to me.
Tiffany
Jul 9, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Dianne my point is that it is not mannerly to point out what YOU percieve to be bad manners. Ironically my mother published a book a couple years ago all about manners and the biggest mannerly faux pas is to feel the need to point out the failings of others. That cashier didn’t need to be rude but neither did she owe you ANYTHING.
I just find it outright bizarre that we can speak of manner in the same context as hitting our kids and calling out perfect strangers when they don’t meet our expectations. Something stinks here.
Matt
Jul 22, 2008 at 9:01 am
Thank you people who are deriding this post. I got near the end of the comments and started to get scared. I just made a blog post entitled “Ethics of Manners,” and concluded that manners are unethical.
Go ahead. Force your kids to say please and thank you to everything. These words will become meaningless, which is worse than someone that uses them sparingly and means them.
As for being respectful. Definitely read my post. This is precisely where the unethical aspect of manners comes from. The time for respect is over.
Never ever, ever blame or praise a child’s behavior on the parents. Some of the hardest working most mannerly children come from horrid households, and vise-versa. Children go through phases. Most of these phases involve rebellious behavior. It will change/go away. Most likely it has nothing to do with the parent.
I’m 22 and a hardworking Ph.D. student in mathematics. I am completely self-motivated. I’m sick of my parents who sit around and watch TV all day and night being praised for my success. Why don’t you practice good manners and focus your praise and attack on the person that deserves it and not on someone that has no control over it?
Marye
Jul 22, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Matt, let me ask you a question. You are obviously of above average intelligence and a logical thinker.
If an eighth grader came into your office and began telling you why algebraic equations were no longer necessary for advanced mathematics how seriously would you take him?
Exactly.
Matt
Jul 22, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I’m not sure what your analogy is supposed to mean. I have at least two interpretations. One is that my not being a parent, how could I be taken seriously commenting on parenting. Another is that the “algebraic equations” are the “parents” providing a foundation for the rest of the child’s life or “advanced mathematics.” A third could be some sort of comment about manners (algebraic equations) form the foundation of society (advanced math) that I’m not fully getting.
In any case, I assure you that all of them are false analogies. I actually started to refute them, but decided against it since it would have been about a 500 word longer reply. So I’ll wait until I have a specific one.
jessica
Jul 22, 2008 at 5:38 pm
allow me a moment to throw my completed advanced degree in the ring. (forgive the typos I’m on an iPhone)….
Sometimes anecdotal evidence is enough. Based on your attitude matt I find you unemployable. I’ll be teaching my kids manners thank you very much.
Further your sample size of a mere 22 years is so small if renders your “data” statistically insignificant.
The good news? We’re mostly moms and in a few years when you’re embarassed by your behavior we’ll have forgiven you.
Jeff
Jul 22, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I don’t mean to personally attack anyone (you can’t have a decent conversation about a topic if the person you are talking to feels attacked). Therefore I’d like to address the issue. Nevertheless, let me warn you that it will feel like I am attacking. I’m using second person to avoid all sorts of he/she statements and gender bias and all that stuff that I’m sure would just get us all off topic.
I think the embarrassing thing here is when you hide behind manners in order to publicly insult or “call out” another person. What is this? Middle school? I personally feel that it is more important to respect another person than to publicly humiliate them in order to try to make yourself feel better or look better to others. Respect is far more powerful than manners in my opinion. Someone didn’t respect you? Well, be the better person and show them through example how you would like to be treated. No one will listen if you deliberately try to make them upset and angry. What have you accomplished if you only make them embarrassed? Well, you’ve inflated your ego, and they walk away having learned nothing. Except that you are a jerk and very rude.
Okay so someone didn’t say “you’re welcome.” Are you perfect? Would you like it if everytime you made some slight mistake someone was there to jump down your throat? Of course not. We’re all raised differently and what seems obvious to you may not be obvious to someone else. At the same time there might be something that seems obvious to that same person that you didn’t think of. Think about it.
Boy, if someone “being rude” (in quotes since it really is all relative) gets you that bent out of shape, then there is something more fundamental going on that needs to be addressed. All the external manners in the world won’t help what’s happening on the inside (low self-esteem, poor self-confidence, poor anger management, lack of self-respect, etc). How about the next time someone is “rude” you laugh and remember that they are “unemployable” and that eventually it will come back to get them if it really is that important. Remember, it doesn’t take an advanced degree to know that you should treat others as you would like to be treated.
Matt
Jul 22, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Fine. I’m not saying don’t teach your kids manners. If your kid turns out to be rude, don’t blame yourself, if your kid turns out to be ultra conformist, erm, I mean well-mannered, don’t praise yourself. (Side note: manners are a social convention, so following them requires mindlessly doing something other people tell you. Is this a value you want to instill in children?)
I’ve spent a long time in college and met people on every single part of the spectrum of manners. I’ve met their families and know how they’ve been raised. The correlation is random at best, and reverse at worst. The mechanism is easily describable, too. You force your kids to do sets of rules that have no reason, and they will rebel once they leave you because they only have external motivation and no internal.
Let your kids discover why sometimes it is important to have manners on their own (my own case by the way), and they will develop an internal motivation to do it. External motivation is only a temporary fix. I know you think I’m young, but you cannot possibly disagree with that.
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